Joy Over Hustle, Every Damn Time with M. Shannon Hernandez

In episode 159 of The Empowered & Embodied Show, Kim Romain and Louise Neil are joined by the magnetic and mission-driven M. Shannon Hernandez—founder of the Joyful Business Revolution—for a real-talk conversation about redefining success, saying no to burnout, and building businesses that are fueled by joy, not pressure.

From the streets of NYC to sacred silence in Bali, Shannon shares what it truly means to live and lead from a place of nothing to prove, nothing to lose. We unpack hustle culture, the art of slowing the f*ck down, and what happens when you finally give yourself permission to stop proving and start living.

This episode is a love letter to sensitive souls, multi-passionate creators, and anyone who's ever been told they have to grind to matter. Spoiler: You don’t. And you were never meant to.

“If it ain’t joyful, we ain’t doing that sh*t.” – M. Shannon Hernandez

Key Takeaways

• Why joy must be a non-negotiable in business
• How to reclaim your time, energy, and creative spark
• The truth about burnout, sensitivity, and proving energy
• Why “less but better” is the new marketing strategy
• How to stop consuming and start creating
• The power of showing up as a full, messy, magnificent human
• Why being human is a viable business plan

Key Moments

00:00 – Welcome and joy-filled intros
04:46 – The mantra that changed everything
07:00 – Choosing presence over panic
10:18 – Visioning from a place of alignment
13:28 – Business by the seasons (and the fire of Aries!)
17:36 – ASAP = As Slow As Possible
22:43 – Rubber time and redefining productivity
26:40 – Pinterest vs. Creating: the trap of inspiration hoarding
30:24 – Content paralysis and proving energy
33:57 – Why you don’t need more content to grow your business
36:49 – Letting go of bro marketing
39:32 – Showing up as a human, not a strategy
42:51 – Gunk, goo, and getting rid of what’s not yours
44:21 – The wisdom is already within you

Connect with Shannon:

Website: https://joyfulbusinessrevolution.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mshannonhernandez/

Join a circle of changemakers committed to leading with purpose, presence and ease inside Kim's Rising Visionaries community and mentorship program.

Reclaim your career and confidence during midlife through Louise's Rise & Redefine program.

If you’re loving this show, come check out the Feminist Podcasters Collective, where creators like us are uplifting diverse voices and driving meaningful change. If you’re looking for new shows to fill your feed, head to feministpods.com to explore everything we have to offer.

Transcript

The Empowered and Embodied Show

Episode 159: Joy Over Hustle, Every Damn Time

Hosts: Kim Romain & Louise Neil

Guest: M. Shannon Hernandez

Release Date: May 13, 2025

Kim Romain (00:35): Hi there, welcome to the Empowered and Embodied show. I'm Kim Romain.

Louise Neil (00:40): And I'm Louise Neil. We're two transformational coaches who are also fellow travelers on the path of growth and self-discovery. And we're inviting you along for the ride.

Kim Romain (00:50): That's right. We're right here in the trenches with you navigating the ups and downs of life. And each week we'll be sharing our own experiences, bringing you conversations with amazing guests, and exploring insights and strategies that have helped us find more clarity, confidence and ease in our lives. And trust us, we do not have it all figured out. We're learning and growing right alongside you. So if you're ready to rise above the chaos, doubt and confusion that sometimes life throws our way and step into a more empowered and embodied version of yourself, then you're in the right place. Let's get started.

Kim Romain (01:42): Hello, hello, hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Empowered and Embodied show. I am one of your co-hosts, Kim Romain, joined as always by my other co-host.

Louise Neil (01:53): That's me, the giggler over here in the corner. I'm Louise. Thanks everyone for joining us. And we're joined by a very special guest today.

M. Shannon Hernandez (02:04): Shannon Hernandez.

Kim Romain (02:07): Shannon, that was so profound. M. Shannon Hernandez. We're so glad that Shannon is here today. I'm going to tell you a little bit about Shannon and then we're going to dive into a conversation. We're just going to see where we go because Shannon has come into this conversation on a new level and we're excited to uncover what that may be. So Shannon is a messaging and marketing strategist and the founder of the Joyful Business Revolution.

Kim Romain (02:30): She has a passion for helping establish business owners who have big missions and big hearts create sustainable, joyful growth. Shannon and her team specialize in organic marketing strategies that help clients grow aligned audiences, strengthen community connections, and use their profits for purpose while prioritizing fulfillment, intention, and here's that word again, joy. Shannon is a strong ally for marginalized communities, actively advocating for diversity and inclusion in every aspect of her work. Beyond consulting and speaking, Shannon spreads joy and actively funds projects that create positive global impact. Shannon, we are so, so glad that you're here today. Thank you for joining us.

M. Shannon Hernandez (03:18): Yeah, thank you for having me. We've been waiting a long time to have this conversation. And it's perfect.

Kim Romain (03:24): I know, we've had other conversations.

Kim Romain (03:27): So Shannon and I actually met in New York almost two years ago. Yeah. Yeah. And that was a joyful full day that we got to spend together with some other wonderful humans as well.

Louise Neil (03:29): Bye.

M. Shannon Hernandez (03:44): Absolutely. I still remember sitting on the street eating tacos and we're like, you and I are like, why is it so loud?

Kim Romain (03:49): Yeah. Yeah, yeah. For sure.

M. Shannon Hernandez (03:55): Everyone else was like not affected by it, but we're like, it's so loud right here.

Kim Romain (04:00): Well, you know, when you're sensitive.

M. Shannon Hernandez (04:03): Yeah, absolutely. And I live here and I thought it was loud.

Kim Romain (04:07): Yeah, I know, I know.

Louise Neil (04:12): I got the sense that there's a name change and it should be J. Shannon for joy. There was so much joy in that. There was so much joy when I joined backstage a little bit today too. Lots of joy.

M. Shannon Hernandez (04:28): Yeah, lots of joy. We're all about well, I have a mantra and I dropped it accidentally when I was told not to cuss on a stage on my first keynote 12 years ago. And it just came out and it said if it ain't joyful, we aren't doing that shit. And then it's that was a baby cuss for me like a really baby cuss. But then they stood up and they applauded and then I was like, Wow, I should use this every

Kim Romain (04:46): And that's like a baby cuss.

Louise Neil (04:50): you

Kim Romain (04:58): If it ain't joyful, we ain't doing that shit.

M. Shannon Hernandez (05:01): It's so easy to live by, like honestly. If you just...

Kim Romain (05:05): What does it look like? What does it look like to live like that?

M. Shannon Hernandez (05:08): To live like that, like I got home from Bali Tuesday morning and it's now Friday. And every day I was like, no, I'm not opening my computer today. No, not today. No, not today. I mean, I haven't even gone to my Google email yet where all the docs are that the clients have sent. I'm like, really? That's probably going to be like Sunday.

M. Shannon Hernandez (05:30): So that's really practical, but also like very practical things like, I went to a networking event last night, which is fine. I have to find the ones that resonate with me, but I went early. Like I looked at the map and I was like, okay, first I thought it started at six. It didn't start till 6.30. That's okay. So I looked at the map and I looked at the traffic. It's only like 10 miles from here. And when I looked at it, was, between 55 minutes and an hour and a half. And I was like, all right, I'm going to go early and just be okay, right? I'm just, it's just going to be okay. Because for me being centered and showing up in that space rather than, you know, trying to find parking and hustling around. And I walked into the space and the lady's like, you can't be here.

M. Shannon Hernandez (06:10): like, hello, I'm here for the event tonight. And she's like, you are so early. It's 520. I'm like, do you need help setting up? Like, what can I help you do? I'm not leaving. And then she goes, the event starts at 630. Can you put out some chairs? I'm like, I will gladly put out some chairs. And she was just so caught off guard that somebody had showed up and she wasn't ready. Cause later she came to me and she said, I am so sorry. I was so rude to the door. And she's like, but your joy was, you're just like, yeah, I'm not leaving. So what can I do to help?

Kim Romain (07:00): Aww.

Louise Neil (07:06): you

Kim Romain (07:09): Yeah, it's so funny how people get so put off. like, no, no, I'm not trying to harsh your buzz by being here early, right? It's like, I can also just sit quietly if there's nothing you want me to do, but yeah.

M. Shannon Hernandez (07:24): Yeah, and I could go for a walk. Like the reason I went into the venue early is because I got there at 520 and then I was wondering, because I starting to get hungry, I went in to ask where I could walk to grab a bite to eat. But I didn't even get that out. She said, you can't be here. I'm like, no, I'm here. Very much here. And then she goes, you don't need to go buy food. We're bringing in like authentic tacos and empanadas. And I'm like, great.

M. Shannon Hernandez (07:50): But it was just interesting, right? And the former me would have been triggered as shit, would have been like pissed off. And I was just like, here I am. How can I help?

Kim Romain (08:05): When did that change happen for you?

M. Shannon Hernandez (08:08): I'd say probably like three years ago when I had this revelation that I have nothing to lose and nothing to

Kim Romain (08:17): Nothing to lose and nothing to prove.

M. Shannon Hernandez (08:23): And that's a good revelation as a business owner. Let me tell you, because on the days where I'm like, like today, I'm like, I should really probably do some marketing because I have a workshop coming up. No one's registered because Shannon's been like off the grid for 20 days, you know, in Bali. And then I was like, that feels today, like it's from a place of like lack and scarcity and that I need to like follow my strategy. And so it's like, fuck it, I ain't doing that today either. lose and nothing to prove. If I wait till Monday it's gonna be just fine, I'm sure.

Louise Neil (09:03): Yeah, we get those stories, right? That there's a push or a grind or we have to do something in order to make something happen. And that's not always true.

M. Shannon Hernandez (09:18): Absolutely.

Kim Romain (09:20): Now I don't know this for sure, because I've never seen your chart. Are you a mani-gen? Yeah. Okay. So we have three mani-gens here who all have three different ways of showing up in the world. But that definitely, it's like, we do have the propensity to do, to push, to move fast because we can all move fast. And yet all of us have also gone through that pathway, our journey of finding a way.

M. Shannon Hernandez (09:24): Yes.

Kim Romain (09:51): couple of episodes ago, there's a massive time where I just go, we just need to slow the fuck down, right? And that's what we've done. And we've found a way to do it for ourselves. So if anybody's ever seen Shannon in a room, Shannon in a room is not slowed down. Shannon in a room has energy. And yet it sounds like Shannon in her life has figured out how to say no.

M. Shannon Hernandez (10:18): Yeah, I mean, this is an interesting thing because I was thinking about this in Bali. Like I was given two very clear visions after like sound healing sessions. And then just like immediately I was like, my god, that's so awesome. I could just like do that and have so much fun and like blow that shit up. And then in the next breath, I was like, I don't really want to work that hard anymore. and it's

M. Shannon Hernandez (10:45): That's not because I'm scared of working hard. That's because the way that I'm wired, if I'm not careful, I will go all in and I will then be like, fuck all this project shit. Like, I don't want to do any of stuff anymore. Because like, I burn myself out, right? So I believe coming out of Bali, my new thing to figure out because I went all in for about, hmm. nine years of this business and built a really good, profitable, you know, foundation and a business that I love. And then like my spouse transitioned to a woman, COVID hit, I've nearly died on a surgery, all this happened in 2020. And I just had to like slow everything down because my body was like not regulated. And so I've been in this

M. Shannon Hernandez (11:30): I don't want to say it's a safe place, but it just feels good because it's not a pushing. But the other part of me is like, I'm ready to turn up the fire again. And then it's like the devil on the shoulder. And then the angel's like, yeah, but you've had it so good for a few years. You're just coasting. And then the devil's like, or maybe that's the devil. don't know. And then the angel's like, you should like kick it high gear. You've got epic shit to do. Like these visions that have been giving to you. And so.

Louise Neil (12:02): you

M. Shannon Hernandez (12:09): Really the last couple of days, I've just been in this energetic state of like, how am I going to go through this next phase? But I don't have an answer yet. So stay tuned.

Kim Romain (12:26): That's the journey though, is figuring out. It's like, okay, now that I have this awareness that this doesn't work for me, what does work for me so that I can also be creating in a way that feels right, because that's creative output. It's I want to be creating. And again, it for sure is Manny Jan energy is let's get this shit going. Let's the things that I have to do and create and be here in the world. Louise and I have these conversations all the time about all the things we're here to do. And how do we honor that?

M. Shannon Hernandez (13:00): Yeah, let me ask a question. So you're both Manny Gins. Manny Gins. How do you balance the, now I'm also a triple fire sign. My birthday is Monday. I got the Aries fire big time, right? Whoa, spring equinox hit in Bali on their most sacred day of the year called Nepi, where everyone goes silent for 24 hours to like get rid of all the.

Kim Romain (13:04): Mm-hmm.

M. Shannon Hernandez (13:28): black and dark thoughts and then emerge in their new year, which is the first day after the moon. And I was like, holy shit, this is like how I was born to operate in the world. And you know this, Kim, because I've been transitioning my entire business model to run with the seasons, right? So this was my first true season of winter from December 20th to March 20, where I actually said I'm resting. Now, there were things that happened that I had to do. It wasn't like I could just eat bonbons all day, right? I had an event in Miami, but the energy was like rest and renewal. And when March 21st came, I was like, wow, I am ready. Like now I'm ready.

M. Shannon Hernandez (14:15): So my question to the two manny gins alongside of me is when you're ready, but you don't want to burn the fuck out, how do you balance that? Because it's real. Like that's a real thing I never want to do ever again. Cause I did it multiple times over from like the time I was seven, right? I'm not talking like this was just the business owner, Shannon, but like going all in and going hard and then being like, damn.

Kim Romain (14:39): Mm-hmm.

M. Shannon Hernandez (14:52): I gotta like rest for four years now.

Kim Romain (14:54): Yeah, amen to that. Louise, do want to share what your secrets are?

Louise Neil (14:59): Well, I don't know that I have any secrets. I have no secrets. I'm an open book. What came up for me, Shannon, when you were saying that is that I also have a fear of that I'm going to burn the idea out.

Louise Neil (15:13): So it's not just me that's gonna burn out. I'm going to just be like heads down and just go with something and not nurture it, not let it be what it needs to be because I'm so fixated on like this thing is like so cool. It's so amazing that it just needs to be birthed into the world and all of this stuff and what am I missing? Right? What? can it change? How does it grow up? How does it go through all of those things that an idea baby needs to go through? so for me, it's kind of both of those things. How do I protect and preserve my energy? And how do I let the idea baby be what it needs to be in the world without crushing it? I don't know that I have it all figured out.

Louise Neil (15:56): To be honest, I'm very much checking myself almost on a weekly basis right now to say, is the slowness in my schedule? Like, where am I like not right in the idea? Where am I not focused on that thing? I get so excited sometimes about what I want to be doing in the world and the when I talk to people and they're like, yes, please, right? Around menopause education and menopause in the workplace and all of this and people are just so hungry for it and I can get swept away. And I'm like, whoa, like I need to step back. need to find, it's almost like, it's finding.

Louise Neil (16:33): It's not finding space in my calendar because space gets filled up with creative things. It's like finding almost like slowness, like actually trying to dial myself back and trying to not get caught up in the energy of it all. The energy out there that I'm feeling, but also the energy in here that I'm feeling, yeah.

M. Shannon Hernandez (17:26): Yeah, well, I think that's a really good point too, is like this idea of, for us sensitive people, like there is so much energy. Like when I was in Bali, I was like. I mean, I checked social media once a day and it wasn't even a check, it was just a post, honestly. Because I wanted to post, not because I felt obligated to post, which felt really good. But I came back, and I was just like, the world is still fucking on fire.

M. Shannon Hernandez (18:00): It was on fire. Like I was so cared for by the retreat leaders. I was cared for like the food was so nourishing, right? It's all organic food brought right from their farm on the on the grounds. So to come back and then be like, God, even just trying to do a normal thing like check your email and it's just like the world's on fire. You need to buy this. You've got to act now. Now is the time. If you don't do it now, you're going to lose. And I was just like, delete, delete, delete. I delete all this shit from my inbox. In fact, I told Maria yesterday, I think it was, I don't know, someone we use, I'll say Time Warner Cable, but we don't use them. But it was a company like that. And they were like, act now or you will. And I just quit reading. And I just said, I said, ASAP now means as slow as possible.

M. Shannon Hernandez (18:40): That's my new reframe.

Kim Romain (19:07): Yeah.

M. Shannon Hernandez (19:08): And I need like a little snail that says ASAP on it. it just like...

Kim Romain (19:14): just to remind you.

M. Shannon Hernandez (19:16): Yeah, I think I'll paint that today, actually.

Kim Romain (19:17): Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I, so there's so much here. So having gone through chronic bouts of burnout multiple times throughout my life, understanding that as a highly sensitive person and understanding what that meant and that that didn't mean that I couldn't function.

Kim Romain (19:40): I can function at very high levels under very stressful situations. And I can also choose not to do that. So I was a practicing attorney for a while. I was a nonprofit executive for a while. Those are two very stressful jobs that have everybody yelling at you about everything. I was very good at both of those jobs. And both of those jobs, what burned me out wasn't the work. What burned me out was that my energy was not being taken care of. And so we can go do that stuff. I could probably go back into, if I wanted to go back into either of those worlds, I don't want to go back into either of those worlds, but I could because I understand energy management for myself now. I understand what I need to do in the moment. So I saw you when we were in Florida together.

Kim Romain (20:20): I was already coming off of a week where I was at a different retreat and it was beautiful and wonderful and coming into the second one, I was feeling depleted. And so I knew that every day, not only did I need to do energy management in the morning and the evening, but I had myself resourced in that space so that I could be present and so that I could be open to what was happening in that moment. And that's why I kept grounding into presence. We talked about that a lot when I was there. It was, right, what's the most important thing for me is presence, because presence is what allows my energy to flow instead of being constricted. So understanding myself and what those cycles are, understanding how to resource myself, and then understanding the different parts of myself. So you said, right, ManiGen Aries, like two different things.

Kim Romain (21:10): There are parts of it that can compliment each other, but there are parts of both of our designs and our astrology, like all of this stuff that work against each other. And so also understanding how to resource those different aspects of self. That's what's been super helpful for me over the last couple of years, as I've been understanding more and more about all those different aspects. Because right, it used to be, I'm a mani-gen, I'm a four six, I'm a dadada, right? Like I would know these things about myself. I'm a double Pisces with an Aquarius moon. Like, woo, yay, I can tell you that. But each of those things need something different. And so I need to know how to work with that.

Kim Romain (21:50): Yeah. So that's my playful area. I would love to know, because you've touched on it a little bit, I would love to know what some of the lessons, and you may not know yet, but some of the lessons, some of the golden nuggets that you're bringing back with you in terms of how you show up as a leader, both in your business and in your community.

M. Shannon Hernandez (22:43): Well, one of the things we really talked about in Bali is how they view time. And they believe quality of time is much more important than precision of time. So we practice something called rubber time. It's like a rubber band. So it's like, if we're in a circle, and we're in like deep discussion, the quality of that time is more important than getting on the bus to the thing that we were supposed to do 10 minutes ago. So in a sense, it didn't matter. I just looked at my WhatsApp. And when someone told me to be somewhere, I just walked over there. It didn't matter what time it was. It was irrelevant. And I kind of liked that a lot in terms of quality of time.

M. Shannon Hernandez (23:22): And you know, I teach this anyway, marketing quality of marketing is better than like, quantity of marketing. So very tangibly, one of the things that I'm going to work on this weekend is I'm redoing my schedule to work 1030 to three, Monday through Thursday, which I used to do a lot. And then I was like, I kind of got like, I'm going on a podcast tour and I'm like got these things to do. And then all these people I was meeting out on the speaking tour wanted to talk. And then my, my calendar just started doing this. And I was like, I don't like it. I'm going back to this. Everyone will just have to wait. I have people now that are waiting like three months to talk to me for a connection call. And I'm just have to be okay with it. Right? Like I have to just trust that, that's okay. Cause like Luis, I have a million other creative things I want to be doing. Right.

M. Shannon Hernandez (24:03): So that's tangibly very, very tangible. The other thing is we stayed at the slogan at this resort was stay human, which I thought was like the most perfect thing because, you know, I'm constantly telling people like, you have to be human. You have to have empathy. You have to like do all this stuff in your copy, like quit turning the shit through AI thinking that it's good because it's not. So really thinking about what's it mean to stay human as a team as a brand, an expanding brand, right? That's always like a fine line. As a leader. So that's I don't have the answers yet. But that's kind of like with me that stay human part. And then the third thing I'd say just like a practical thing in my home is I posted on my Instagram and Facebook yesterday, the Wednesday how I was able to do somewhat grounding as I built five altars in my house. Now I already had three altars. Now I have eight altars.

M. Shannon Hernandez (24:51): just like going around in the morning and I'm like, I'm gonna light a candle here and do incense over here. And it was really very nice. It's a very calm, like nourishing way to start the day. And I'd say those are the top ones. The other like two things I realized there, one I've realized for a long time, is I have, I'll call it an addiction, for lack of a better word. I have a social media addiction. And it's not necessarily like, because I have the nothing to lose and nothing to prove. So it's not the, need to be seen and I'm posting all the time. It's more like I'm on Pinterest pinning all the art that I want to do, but I'm never fucking creating the art. And I'm like, this is going to stop. Like I am done with this behavior. Same with like, now I love to cook. I have recipes. I could make five a day till the day I die and I'd never make them all. Like stop fucking looking for recipes and scrolling and just like go make some of them, right? Like I have all the shit that I need to make them. So that social media addiction, I don't know if it's the right word, but addicted to accumulating the things instead of actually creating the things I want to be creating, which was, it's a nice way to think about like, how are we spending our time on social media? The other thing that I just think I realized last night at this event, I think I have a sugar addiction, which is really weird to me because I'm in shape, I exercise, we keep a vegan house. I don't love sugar.

Kim Romain (27:30): Hmm.

M. Shannon Hernandez (27:41): like a cookie, for example. Last night there was a cookie. I ate a cookie. Before I knew it, I had had two cookies. Then I had three cookies. And on the way home, I was like, fuck, I either had five or six cookies. Like that is not normal for me. And I could not sleep last night. This morning I woke up jittery and I was like, I don't love sugar, but the minute I take a bite of it, I want more of it, right, which is actually the purpose of it's actually a drug, right? So I woke up this morning, but I didn't wake up because I never went to sleep. And I told Maria like the, the, little, healthy protein ball things that I made, which is dates, coconut, like I can eat one of those and I'm good at like satisfies the sweet tooth. I'm not going back. I'm like, I'm done with this. Like,

Kim Romain (28:15): Right.

M. Shannon Hernandez (28:39): I think it took me being like somewhere that was just like super healthy and I wasn't like, I mean, I was nourished with very healthy food, which is a whole nother topic for a whole different podcast episode of what is happening on this side of the world with our food sources. But I never thought about sugar, but it's because I was having fresh juices every day, which is sugar. It's just a different kind of sugar, right? Desserts that were sugar free, really good stuff made with like four ingredients. So those are two things that I really want to work on personally is like just not even being tempted by sugar in the first place and then like creating. I just need to be creating, not pinning.

Kim Romain (29:26): consuming, right? Because it's a different kind of consumption. I do the same thing with recipes. And then I realize I'm like, what do you avoid? Because for me, it's avoidant behavior. It's like, what am I avoiding? Do I need to go create something to then move this through? And so, yeah, that's one. I don't always do it for sure, but I do notice it now.

M. Shannon Hernandez (29:32): Yeah. Hmm.

Louise Neil (29:51): Yeah, social media is so interesting, right? Because it's designed much in the same way as sugar is designed, is to keep us in that constant consumption place. And I find too that it prevents me from creating. And right, in so many ways, it's not just taking up my time when I could be creating, but now I'm getting in my head to say like, ooh, what am I creating? Am I creating something as good as that? look at that. Ooh, how did they do that? my God, like. Mm-hmm.

M. Shannon Hernandez (30:24): Yes. my God. Then the voice, right? The voice over and over again. It's like, I should just keep pinning because I could never do that anyway. So I'll just keep collecting.

Louise Neil (30:34): Yep. Yep.

M. Shannon Hernandez (30:38): And this all, Kim, you can chime in on this if you want. This whole conversation about consuming and like, I do have a new appreciation for the people who come to me and they are stuck on their content. Right? Because I can only, like, I don't do this with content. I'm solid in the content. Like I create the million dollar messaging and off I run. But I can only imagine people that's not their skill set. Those are the people who are paying me. All right? they're probably like, scrolling, looking through everyone's content, the little voices going off in their head, they're looking at emails, I could do that, or I could do that. And I was just like, wow, this this has to be overwhelming in people's brains.

Kim Romain (31:22): Well, that comes from that proving energy. And I can speak to this directly, right? So yes, I am paying Shannon to, cause I work with Shannon. And I love and adore Shannon beyond that. But for me, it is hard to sometimes create because I'm, and I recognize it for myself, I'm in that proving energy. And it's not that I'm proving my wisdom, it's I'm proving my voice in a way. It's like I'm proving my voice can take up some space. Yeah, it's really, it's, and for me, so I haven't been active on social media since January 20th. Figure out that for yourselves, friends. But I do things behind the scenes. So I got rid of Facebook completely. I have it on my computer like I didn't kill my account. I have it on my computer. And if somebody sends me a message, I can check things through Messenger. Instagram, I'm posting stuff about the podcast, but I'm not active on Instagram at all. LinkedIn, I'm doing stuff behind the scenes, but I haven't been called to create. And I've gotten to the point where I'm okay with that. I know it's building within me. And as it's rebuilding within me,

Kim Romain (32:30): A new message is coming forward. A new something is coming forward. And I just, I needed to be okay with a not consuming, right? So I'm not sitting here going, I should be doing these things and reading everybody else's stuff and going, that's a good idea. If I happen upon something that is inspirational and I'm like, yeah, that gets my sacral to respond to it. Fine, I put that in my inspiration area, but I'm not looking for it. And it's doing a lot of self work to say, just because I'm not creating content on the regular out in the world does not mean that I am not running my business. I'm running it in a very different way. I'm running, right? mean, using your framework, right? I'm live and in person. Well, I live somewhere where live and in person is a little hard for me right now still. And so live and in person is video, but I'm doing it person to person.

M. Shannon Hernandez (33:31): Yeah.

Kim Romain (33:48): I'm having conversations, I'm having so many conversations, and that is moving my business forward in the way that feels good to me.

M. Shannon Hernandez (33:57): Yeah. Well, and I think I just want to highlight as a ethical marketing and messaging strategist. We have all been sold a crock of shit that the more content we put out, the better and bigger and more money our business will make. And it's not true, which is why joyful business revolution exists to help you get your message on point so you can do less.

Kim Romain (34:12): Big one.

M. Shannon Hernandez (34:28): less but better marketing and communicating and then go live your life outside of your business. What a concept. And it is a trust, right? It is a trust because I was trained, you know, when I hit the business scene, the only people doing coaching were like those fucking bro marketers. And so I had to do undo a lot of that in about year nine, like a lot, because I was the

Kim Romain (34:36): Yeah. Yeah. It's a huge trouble.

M. Shannon Hernandez (34:58): I mean, that's just how I was was trained as a content creator, a copywriter and a marketer at the end of the day. So I do want to say if if if you're listening and you're like, Ooh, less but better. Yeah, you're our people. It is possible. And but it is going to require you to fight a lot of thoughts that are going to come up that will tell you that you're failing because you're not creating.

Kim Romain (35:29): Yeah, I definitely had to do a lot of work before I was ready for that because it was, didn't, I think I've always known that it's not, like I've never been a post three times a day. I never believed in that. was like, that's not, my social media is my billboard. It is not where my clients come from. I never believed that to be true. And that's also because I know, again, I know my design, know myself, and I know that it's the conversations that bring people in. It's the relationships.

Kim Romain (36:00): I was also in fundraising for more than a decade and we didn't do, I mean, yes, you could do crowd.

M. Shannon Hernandez (36:06): source.

Kim Romain (36:07): Thank you. I totally lost that word. But you could do all sorts of stuff, but it was the relationships that brought in the big dollars. And so I always treated my business that way. And what made me kind of go needle off the record with it was people saying, the world needs to hear your thought leadership. And I'm like, that feels big and important. Okay.

Kim Romain (36:30): And so that was the scary part for me was like, what am I leading people in with my thoughts? And I've never been a person who wants to share every thought with the world. Like that's just not me.

M. Shannon Hernandez (36:49): Yeah. Yeah. And to your point, one, that's exhausting and not sustainable. And two, that's not even what thought leadership is. But people made us believe

Kim Romain (36:59): And yes, right?

M. Shannon Hernandez (37:02): Absolutely. On this note of what's your content personality, which you've heard Kim say, hers is live in person. Mine is live in person too, but I am not going to sit with people on Zoom. And that's where the flexibility and the variance comes in within even the content personalities. But what one of my teammates said to me in Okay, where I met you, there were three of us, two became clients out of the three. Okay, so that's a 66 % conversion, right? Then the next summer, I went to an event here in New Jersey and it was like a three day little retreat thing. And we signed like, I don't know, I think there were 12 people there. They weren't all business owners, so.

M. Shannon Hernandez (37:40): Maybe like two or three clients came from there. So then my team says, Shannon, I think you should just go on retreats for yourself and count it as marketing. And I'm like, now that's a good idea. So this retreat had 19 people signed two clients before I left and several others in conversation with either myself or Amy. And now I'm like really starting to believe it. holy shit, how awesome would it be if I just showed up and went to the things I want to go to anyway with and spend time with the people I want to spend time with traveling the places I want to go. And that was like most of my marketing.

Kim Romain (38:44): Shannon, that's what I did in Florida. The first retreat I left, I have three clients from that, right? And then another three that are, and there were only 11 of us total. Where I was with you, I have two clients from, and I'm in talks with collaborations with three other people.

M. Shannon Hernandez (39:09): That's what we wanted for my event. Thank you.

Kim Romain (39:11): Yeah. no, it's wonderful. Yeah, but it's the same thing. And Louise, I know you've been having the same thing with where you're going to different, being in different conversations, not about necessarily the work aspect of it, but being in the community has been so beneficial for you recently.

Louise Neil (39:32): And you know, as I'm listening to the two of you talk, it's like, what a, what a release to let go of this, like, I've got to be in the space and my outcome is clients. And that's why I'm here. Like, why don't we just show up as humans and see what happens. And it's a really weird kind of business strategy to actually like write down.

M. Shannon Hernandez (40:03): Wait, can we quote that? Please quote. Why don't I just show up as, why don't we just show up as humans and see what happens? This feels like a weird business strategy.

Louise Neil (40:18): Right? It does.

Kim Romain (40:18): I think it's a beautiful business strategy.

Louise Neil (40:23): So that's this whole idea of like, how do we like, we're, what we're doing is reinventing, like how we do business. We're also reinventing how we show up as leaders, right? Over and over and over again. How do we show up in a way that is so fully aligned with who we are, that those opportunities, those things, they happen because we're in alignment.

Louise Neil (40:45): And it's amazing to see. I see it over and over and over again. And yet there's still such fear around like, but I can't let go. but I have to do that. Right. And it's it's this roller coaster, yo-yo thing that we get on. until we're out there enough proving that being human is actually a marketing strategy, we fall back into this this. You called it bro energy. It's totally right. Total bro energy. Yeah.

M. Shannon Hernandez (41:24): And it wasn't all bros gender wise. But that's right. I've been needing to like, I was trying to think like, is it cis energy? Like, si s like bro is brother. But like, what is the energy for the the other gender?

Louise Neil (41:27): Sure.

Kim Romain (41:29): for sure not. Yeah. Yeah. And you can

Louise Neil (41:30): That's the energy, right? Yeah, yeah.

Kim Romain (41:48): Well, and I mean to non-gender it, right? Cause I know that that's a whole thing is how do we non-gender this, it, yeah, that it's sorry, girl bus just popped into my head and I, was like, it just, anybody who uses that term is not getting me anywhere near them. But yeah, I mean, you can feel it. It's palpable when you get into a space where that energy is there.

M. Shannon Hernandez (41:59): Yes. Thank you.

Kim Romain (42:18): And it's thick, it's hanging on people. and take a little chisel, start pulling it off of them and saying, what's underneath that? What's underneath that is a lot of vulnerability and fear.

M. Shannon Hernandez (42:30): Absolutely. And people that can hide behind social media and whatever else with a team or whatever and are very not human-like in person.

Kim Romain (42:43): Yeah. my gosh. So.

M. Shannon Hernandez (42:46): like a lizard or something placed amongst the human.

Kim Romain (42:51): think it circles back to kind of where you started was this, where we, one of the things that you talked about is that place of lack and scarcity. And they're feeding off of that in the marketplace and all the different marketplaces, they're feeding off of that. And by doing so, it's keeping us in these really unhealthy cycles that thankfully there are people like us who are willing to move beyond that and show other people that there's a way to move beyond that.

M. Shannon Hernandez (43:27): Yeah. Thank goodness we're alive.

Kim Romain (43:30): Right? I know, I know. And thank goodness we know how to bring joy into the world because that also goes a long way towards it. So I know we could, and we have like 15 more conversations in us, I'm sure, at least. What are our takeaways from this conversation? Because we just kind of meandered down this beautiful path. What are those little nuggets that we want to make sure that people take away with?

M. Shannon Hernandez (43:57): Keep life sacred. Stay human. If it ain't joyful, we ain't doing that shit. Less is better. being human is your best business plan.

Louise Neil (44:13): hahahahah Yeah, ditto. Like showing, right? Yeah, yeah, 100%. And showing up as yourself, right? Like who you want to be makes a difference. It does. Yeah.

Kim Romain (44:21): Right? Mic drop. The one thing that I just would add in there is the wisdom is already within you. Because everything we talked about is something that we did have within us and that we just needed to get rid of the gunk, right? Get rid of the proving and the consuming and all of that, because the wisdom's already there. So the wisdom's already within you. Yeah.

M. Shannon Hernandez (44:55): Get rid of the gunk. That's the big lesson.

Kim Romain (44:57): Yeah, rid of the gunk. It's icky. It's just icky.

M. Shannon Hernandez (45:02): It's green and gooey and gunky.

Kim Romain (45:04): Yeah. In slime. Shannon, if people want to continue the conversation with you, where can they find you in the

M. Shannon Hernandez (45:13): You can connect with me on LinkedIn, because that's where I'm hanging out these days. It's Shannon Hernandez, and also joyfulbusinessrevolution.com. We've got a beautiful page up that says resources, and it's a choose your own adventure. So whatever kind of resource you might be looking for to grow your business, you get to choose the one you want, and we'll send it to your email.

Kim Romain (45:41): Beautiful, beautiful.

Louise Neil (45:43): I love it. I had such a great time today. Thank you, Shannon. Thank you, Kim. What a great conversation one we're not having enough of, for sure. But yeah, it's been...

Kim Romain (45:57): Thanks everyone, thank you Shannon and keep finding your joy.

Louise Neil (46:03): Take care, everyone.

Kim Romain (46:03): Bye, everyone.

Kim Romain (46:06): And that's all for this week's episode of the Empowered and Embodied Show. We hope today's episode has sparked something within you. Remember, we're all on this journey together. If something did resonate with you today, why not share it with a friend who might need to hear it too? You can find us everywhere you listen to podcasts. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you're feeling generous, leave a review. Your feedback not only helps others find the show, but also helps us understand what's most valuable to you. Until next time, be kind to yourself, stay curious, and remember, we're walking right alongside you. Thanks for being part of our community.