The Dance Between Being and Doing

In episode 162 of The Empowered and Embodied Show, Kim Romain and Louise Neil explore what it means to embrace being in a world that constantly demands doing. They unpack the tension between presence and productivity, and what it looks like to live in alignment without burning out.

Together, they reflect on how growth doesn't have to be forced, it naturally unfolds when we’re present. Instead of chasing clarity, they show how you can find it by simply showing up as you are. They unpack the tension so many of us feel between stillness and movement, presence and productivity, planning and play. 

With a dose of laughter (and baloney sandwiches), they explore how self-awareness and inner alignment help us navigate this dance between being and doing without losing ourselves in the push.

"Presence is when I feel like I get to actually be me." – Kim Romain

"Sometimes letting go is the experience.” - Louise Neil

Key Takeaways

• The difference between doing and being (and how to honor both)
• What true presence feels like (and why it’s the key to authentic living)
• How to grow without burning out or losing yourself
• Why coaching and therapy serve different needs—and how to know which you need
• How to balance your inner planner and your spontaneous self
• What it means to know yourself deeply—without judgment or striving

Key Moments

00:00 Welcome and intro

02:07 Celebrating three years of podcasting and the magic of unscripted conversations

04:33 “When is it okay to just be?”

06:34 How presence reveals the truest parts of ourselves

09:13 What being present really means (and how it differs from productivity)

12:49 The many hats we wear and how to stay authentic while shifting roles

15:05 Baloney sandwiches and school buses: a metaphor for your inner world

19:10 The joy of conversation without an agenda

23:36 Why your planner and your spontaneous side need each other

25:06 Self-trust grows when you honor the needs of all your parts

28:27 Coaching vs. therapy: unpacking vs. choosing your train

32:55 Getting unstuck by releasing the “why” and tuning into the “what’s next”

36:54 Let the journey be the destination

Join a circle of changemakers committed to leading with purpose, presence and ease inside Kim's Rising Visionaries community and mentorship program.

Reclaim your career and confidence during midlife through Louise's Rise & Redefine program.

If you’re loving this show, come check out the Feminist Podcasters Collective, where creators like us are uplifting diverse voices and driving meaningful change. If you’re looking for new shows to fill your feed, head to feministpods.com to explore everything we have to offer.

Transcript

The Empowered & Embodied Show
Episode Title: The Dance Between Being and Doing
Hosts: Kim Romain & Louise Neil
Release Date: June 3, 2025

(00:00): Intro message

Kim Romain (01:51): Hello, hello, hello everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Empowered and Embodied show. I am one of your co-hosts as always, Kim Romain, joined by the lovely...

Louise Neil (02:02): That's me, I am your other co-host, Louise.

Kim Romain (02:07): It's true. It's so true. It's so true. We've been doing this for over three years.

Louise Neil (02:09): It is true. Yep. Can you believe that?

Kim Romain (02:16): I can actually. Yeah.

Louise Neil (02:17): Can you? Why is it believable?

Kim Romain (02:20): I think it's believable because not only have we had amazing conversations and, you know, phenomenal guests and all that good stuff, that part's like, wow, we've done that. It feels like it's so much a part of who I am and who we are, are these conversations. So yeah, it's like, it does feel like we've always done this. So I guess that's where the three years doesn't surprise me.

Louise Neil (02:48): I find the structure and the routine of this podcast comforting in that I know that we're gonna get together and we're gonna have a great conversation and something's gonna come from it. Because we don't have these conversations just for shits and giggles. We have these conversations and we go deep with ourselves and with our guests. I've always known that what we're talking about is important. And we get to do that in a way that feels that feels really good. And, and that routine really does. It helps me because I know we're gonna have it. I know we're gonna have great guests, and we get to explore and talk. And we don't script anything when we're talking with our guests, right? We don't know where that conversation is going to go. And I love that we get to go deep with people who were strangers only moments before we come out at the end with a connection and with a friend, with community. And I really love that part of it too.

Kim Romain (03:55): Yeah. There's the, the aspect of growth, right? We can see it within the arc of even one conversation where each of us, we all walk away with something, right? It's part of, part of why at the end of every conversation we say, what is that thing? Like bring forward a thread for our listeners, for ourselves, so that we can revisit that and go, yeah, that's something I'm taking with me. And we've done that since the beginning. That hasn't changed.

Louise Neil (04:23): Mm-hmm.

Kim Romain (04:24): So we do get to learn something each time. We learn something about ourselves, we learn something about each other, we learn something about, you know, whoever's at the table.

Louise Neil (04:33): When is it not OK to grow? Like I get this sense of, I get this sense of...

Kim Romain (04:41): I literally just heard the needle go off the record.

Louise Neil (04:45): No!

Kim Romain (04:46): No, I did. I love the question. Carry on.

Louise Neil (04:48): Why? Well, you know, it's like, when is it okay to just be? So we're living in a pretty crazy time. I often get, am I trying to say here? There's so many things that are trying to fall out of my head. I get caught up sometimes in self-development as part of this. And I can get caught up in...

Kim Romain (04:57): Mm-hmm.

Louise Neil (05:13): ...the consumption of things, right? So I can get caught up in the consumption of new cycle. I can get caught up in the consumption of learning something new. And I can get caught up in my own self-development because I'm curious. And I get on these tracks where it's just kind of like go, go, go. And I'm curious, is like...

Kim Romain (05:15): Fair. Yell ya.

Louise Neil (05:36): ...when is it okay not to do those things?

Kim Romain (05:40): You mean because I was just talking about all the growth that happens during these conversations? Yeah. Totally fair. Yeah.

Louise Neil (05:43): Yeah, like when, yeah.

Kim Romain (05:47): Always. It is always okay to just be. I don't think when I'm saying that growth, I'm not actively or even intentionally trying to grow. I'm not sitting here going, I'm going to have this conversation so I can lean into more personal development.

Louise Neil (06:01): You...

Kim Romain (06:02): That's not at all what I do. And yet when I walk away, I always walk away with something and I walk away with something because of presence. Because I'm, I'm present in the conversations. I'm, I'm listening not for the purposes of what can I learn, but I'm listening to be as a part of presence. Does that make sense?

Louise Neil (06:31): Yeah, why be present? What's important about that?

Kim Romain (06:34): That is a great question. What came through initially is, and it may be my answer, is because that's me. Presence feels, when I'm present, I feel like I get to actually be me. When I'm not present, so when I'm distracted or when I'm guarded or when I'm pre-thinking about things, when I'm performing, I'm not me. I don't get to be me. And when I'm present, I get to be super, like I can't be anybody but me. I can't, and I'm not doing anything either. That's, that's the, to me, that's the beauty of presence is I'm not doing anything. I'm just being, which allows me to be present.

Louise Neil (07:18): Tell me more about this being, doing thing. Because I think it's really interesting, because this is the conversation, this is conversations we have about how to be more ourselves without doing more, but yet we still are moving.

Kim Romain (07:41): So you added a layer there.

Louise Neil (07:43): I did.

Kim Romain (07:45): Yeah. All right. So how do you be more without doing more so you can, well, continuing to move?

Louise Neil (07:54): Yeah, is that the goal? I have so many questions today. Yeah.

Kim Romain (07:57): Well, that's so, so that's my question. Yeah. Like, so why that added layer? Why do I have to move?

Louise Neil (08:03): Ooh. That is a good question. But I feel like when we're talking about, and we've had guests on our podcast before we talk about slowing down and being present and doing things differently, there's still for me, there's still this, I still have things I wanna do in the world. There's still things I want to accomplish. There's still things like I, 53. And there are decades, hopefully, I have decades before me where I get to do stuff, bring things into my life and do different things. And so when you were saying about like, I want to just be and I don't want to do and I'm like, what? How does that get me the stuff that I want?

Kim Romain (08:53): Well, but I'm not trying to get stuff in this conversation. So what we were talking about was the presence, because you asked me the question about growth. Like, do we always have to grow? Do we always have to move? Do we always have to do? Right? No. And when talking about growth in terms of these conversations...

Louise Neil (09:04): Yeah. Mmm.

Kim Romain (09:13): ...it's a cool benefit that we get to walk away with, this place of growth, this place of I learned something. That's not my intention any time I go into these conversations. I go into these conversations to be really present, to experience the conversation. Very different energy that I have than when I'm present and I'm building out offers or I'm present and I'm teaching a class or I'm present and I'm developing a timeline for something. That's a diff, like, that's not the presence of being here, being open to where we're going.

Louise Neil (09:48): I got really curious because you were talking about how you were more you when you were present.

Kim Romain (09:53): Mm-hmm. 100%. So, so when I, so you want to know then I'm assuming from that, that comment, how am I still me when I am teaching or when I'm doing or building or planning?

So that type of presence, I have to be present still to be able to be me in that moment. And if I'm forcing that moment, like, oh, I have to sit down and I have to figure out what my plan is for this month. I have to figure out a content calendar, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, that thing is, probably doesn't feel like me. It feels like, you know, CEO hat, running my business self. And there's part of that that is me.

Because there is a part of me that actually really loves to do the planning, loves to create a timeline, loves to create whatever. So if I'm in the frame of mind where I can be present and focused on what I'm developing and let it unfold naturally, that's fantastic. If I go, and then I'm not saying that happens every time. There are plenty of times where I'm like, have to have this figured out.

I just have to have this figured out. I have to do this thing. So I take another part of my personality and I go, okay, who here, what part of Kim can move this forward? So yeah, it's me, but it's not me in the sense of... unburdened, unattached.

Right? I do still have attachments and judgments and all those things that it's like, how do you approach this from that place of non-attachment, non-judgment? Well, it's important to at times release those things. And as a human being, I don't release them all the time.

I don't know, does that answer the question?

Louise Neil (11:38): Yes, and I think it's really interesting, you know, when we talk about being authentic and like, how do we be more ourselves? First of all, we have to understand who we are so that we know when we're in that moment or we know how to show up. And yet we can still be ourselves in different ways.

Like there's, we have multiple sides and dimensions of that. And I think, you know, as you were talking, it's really interesting to be able to say, like, who do I want to be? What version of myself do I want to be in this moment? Who am I? What hat am I putting on? Right? Am I putting on...my mom hat, am I putting on my partner hat, am I putting on my CEO hat? But understanding who you are in those moments doesn't have to be drastically different than who you are in this moment when you don't have any of those hats on.

Kim Romain (12:49): Yeah, I think the... There is a... There are 14,000 thoughts that want to come through. So one aspect of it is that we do have, as you said, there's so many different parts of us, so many different layers to us. It's why I developed this tool, the Strengthscape tool, because when we look at all these different elements of ourself, what we see, we can see where we're aligned. Sure. We can see why...

...being present in these conversations feels very luxuriously me, like a way that I'm not in, sometimes in other conversations or other parts of my day where I can just lean in and let time flow.

And there are also the misalignments. There are the conflicting parts of self that become really challenging. So there is very much this part of me that loves the flow of let's just talk and let's just unpack things and let's just let it kind of simmer and move forward the way that it wants to. Very flowy. And then there is very much a very true to me.

Let's get shit done. Cut and dry, very candid, very direct. Let's just move on. And that is also part of me.

It feels very different...

Louise Neil (14:11): Mm-hmm.

Kim Romain (14:12): ...and is also where I've spent a lot of my life. And so coming in these conversations and saying, I'm excited to open up and unpack whatever it is that like comes forward... is an exciting place to play.

And when I'm doing this with a client or with a group, I'm not receiving. I mean, I am, I do enjoy and I do walk away feeling full from those conversations, but I'm not receiving, right? I'm there to hold space for others and to guide and facilitate, advise, but I'm not receiving. In these conversations, I get to receive and get, like, there's a... different kind of dance here that doesn't exist in a lot of places.

And so that part of being me feels so good.

Louise Neil (15:05): Yeah. Yeah. It's understanding that what part I often think of, I've said this before, right? Like it's me and all my parts and we're on a school bus and hopefully I'm the driver. And there's all of these characters in the back throwing juice boxes and baloney sandwiches often.

There's a couple that are very quiet, reserved, that sit right near in the back that are like, can't believe that those kids are doing that. I have those parts. And occasionally I notice as the driver, I'm actually not driving. I'm actually a passenger sitting there watching some young punk drive the bus.

And it's like, how is that okay? But yet I'm doing it. so, but it's understanding that sometimes that little part of me actually needs to be driving the bus for a while. They are tired of baloney sandwiches and they want to feel a little bit in control and they want to, right? There's a need there. And like, as you were talking about like these different parts of you and understanding like,

what each part needs, it starts to become a dance that we do around understanding like all of these parts of us, the totality of us, and what each part, like every part has a strength, has a superpower, it has a reason for being on the bus. Understanding what that is, is a lot about like for me what happens in these conversations, because...

It's like when I can be present, like when you're talking, when I'm immersed in this conversation and like this one and others that we have with our guests, who knows where it's gonna go? No idea who's driving this bus and who's gonna pick up on something and what that feels like. And that's truly like this really fun place to be. And I don't think we get to do that.

and I say we as I mean, the totality of we on this planet, we don't get to do that very often in a safe place or in a place that feels supportive where we do get to be able to kind of sit back and see all of those things and what gets fed at that moment. We're usually like, who's driving the bus? Where are we going? And can everybody sit down and just eat your sandwich instead of throwing it at little Timmy's head?

Kim Romain (17:43): It's so true, right? And that's, that is the desire to have like, here are the five bullet points of where we're headed in today's conversation. No, we, like, even after the point when we do the show notes for these, we're like, I don't know, it just went over here.

Louise Neil (17:52): Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Kim Romain (17:58): But they're real. They're real conversations. And I think that that is when I was talking earlier about that growth, like what the joy that I get and why it's like, yeah, I can imagine it's been three years because there's been so much that I've walked away with because these conversations are real.

Right? These are the types of conversations that I want to encourage others to have more often. Where you just, you don't know where they're going, you don't have an ulterior motive, you may not even have a topic. Or you may have a topic and you go, I left that beside, like at the entrance point, because where we're going is more interesting. Which by the way is what happened in today's conversation.

Louise Neil (18:40): Mm-hmm. We think we always have the best intentions of like, what topic are we going to talk about today? And where could this conversation go? And then we hit record and it all melts away.

I... Do you have any other place in your life where this happens?

Kim Romain (18:59): Yes, I do have some other outlets for this. Most of them are over voxer with like 15 minute voice notes to each other. But it is...

Louise Neil (19:02): Mm-hmm. You. Mm.

Kim Romain (19:10): It's reminiscent in many ways of two times in my life. One was university where, man, we were a philosophical group of theater kids. And we sat around and we talked about everything. we explored and we were stoned off our asses and we were constantly trying to figure out, right? Get deeper. we thought we were...

...getting really deep. We might've been, like, I don't really know. We might've been. But then it also reminds me of when I met my husband. And we would spend hours just talking. We weren't solving any world problems, right? We weren't trying to get to a certain point in a conversation. We were just conversing.

And those two times, and maybe that's why I said it feels like me, because there's a freedom in it. Right? I'm not, don't, sure. I watch the clock. That's one of my jobs on here is to make sure we wrap up at it in a timely manner. But that's not, I don't sit here and I don't try to steer or guide the ship. It's really that place of

of curiosity and of pure presence, of just saying, is what wants to come forward, right? Just a few minutes ago, was like 14,000 things wanted to come forward. I just picked one. I'm like, okay, that's the one that we're going to go with in this moment. But that's real life. That's a real conversation. It's not what I feel like, I rarely got it in the workplace because every conversation had to have a purpose.

Unless it was in the break room and then, right? Some of those were really, really short because we had go back and do what we were doing.

And then, you know, for at least 15 years, the other conversations that I've been having have been around parenting or running a business or, right, they're very focused versus just exploring.

What about for you?

Louise Neil (21:10): Well, two things come up. So I have a person in my life that happens all the time, right? He'll come over or we'll get together and we'll say, this is what we're going to do. And three hours later, we haven't even started that thing because we've been talking and doing other things that feel a little more spontaneous and less planned, less scripted. And so I find that is...

That is a lot of fun. I'm also recognizing as well is to kind of bring that more into my arts and crafts, like the things that I'm doing. So the art that I'm doing or the work that I'm doing, I often will think long and hard about how do I want something to look or what am I planning? How am I going to, you...

...refinish this thing or do that. And as much as I like the plan, I'm doing this with my trip too, as much as I like to plan, I love the letting go once you get started and to be able to explore. So I know that the plan has this backup. I always have a backup and yet I can take it where it needs to go.

I can go on a road trip after planning for weeks. I can go on a road trip and not do any of the things I've read about or any of the things I planned and still have a fabulous road trip. I can do my renovations to my room. I can plan. I can make sure everything's like, yeah, and still end up with something completely different. Different paint on the walls, wallpaper versus tile, whatever that looks like. That's okay. I need the plan.

I enjoy the plan and then I enjoy the curiosity and the flexibility and adaptability that comes with not following the plan. So those are those two of the kids throwing baloney sandwiches at each other. One loves it and the other one is like, yeah, who cares?

Kim Romain (23:14): Yeah, that's those misalignments, right? That I was talking about where you can have one part of yourself that clearly wants to just be in full play and the other side where it's like, we need a structure. Right?

Louise Neil (23:27): But it doesn't feel like a misalignment to me.

Kim Romain (23:29): So how do you work through it? How do you know when it's time to plan, when it's time to plan?

And that's awesome that it doesn't feel that way because it does for a lot of people.

Louise Neil (23:36): Yeah, it's interesting because I have learned about myself that they each have a different need and that they can actually coexist. And so the part of me that loves to plan isn't attached to the outcome anymore. I was, I used to be. I used to be very attached to the outcome. And when I didn't get that outcome, it was like, what the hell?

I've planned it and everything is supposed to go, right? And it doesn't. But that part of me that likes to plan, it's the act of planning that feels so fun. It's not the outcome, it's the act of doing it. And the part of me that loves the spontaneity also appreciate that there's always a backup plan. There's all, ooh, the planner.

The planner's got it all. The planner has memorized the tour book and the map. And so I don't have to worry about what may or may not happen because the planner will kick in at some time in the future if I need them and just take over and it will end all well. And so they actually need each other. The planner needs the spontaneous side of me to kick things into action. Otherwise,

I'd still be planning. And then the spontaneous part of me knows that they can be spontaneous because the planners got it covered.

Kim Romain (25:06): And that's knowing yourself. Right? That's knowing that within you, you have these two parts and understanding what each of those parts need. So the planning part needs a little bit of tempering, lack of a better word, maybe, to just say, you've done enough. Thank you. And to be able to let go and say, it doesn't have to be the outcome that you planned the way you planned it.

And that can take a lot of work with that part, right? Because I have one of those parts too that would say, this is how we planned it, this is how it has to be.

I mean, I was a stage manager for that sake, but I had to learn in stage management, like, yes, we have a plan and that plan will never go the way that you want it to. So what do you need to, right, right? Work with that part so it can relax a little bit, release a little bit. And then on the spontaneity side, the play side, for that part to know,

It actually thrives when it understands that there is a framework or some security or some safety built in. Right? Because very many of us, have that spontaneous side, that free will side, that very playful side that it's like, I don't want any fucking rules. And right, we run around and we're like, I don't need anything, just leave me be. And then all of a sudden when the bottom drops out, it's like we freeze.

We can't move because we don't know what to do and we don't feel safe.

And, we keep pushing through to continue to find that next high because that's what's going to make us feel safe the next time. Like we're back in the saddle. So, but that takes a great deal of understanding to say, I have, and this is why I'm saying a lot of people don't recognize those misalignments actually do support each other because they do. They always do. They always do. Sometimes we have to really figure out where they're holding, right? Where they're...

...gripping and saying, is my position and my position is the right position versus saying, it's okay, right? I mean, we're both managens. You're a peer managen. I'm an emotional managen. And so the way we're designed as managens, you have this beautiful circuit that allows you to just do, do, do, do, do, just, can manifest, manifest, make things happen, inform, respond, inform, respond, inform, respond all day long. I cannot. We are two separate systems.

And I expected them to operate as one system. And as I started to understand their two separate systems and they both have separate needs, the more I was able to tap into them and allow them to each have what they need so that they can support me in a way that actually allows me to move things forward. To go back to what you were talking about earlier, instead of just spinning, right? Because...

I can get really good at spinning and chasing my tail.

Louise Neil (28:14): Yeah.

Kim Romain (28:15): So how did you learn that about yourself?

Louise Neil (28:18): About my parts or about...

Kim Romain (28:21): About how you work with these, the needs of the different things and so one isn't trying to take over the other.

Louise Neil (28:27): So, sure. Coaching?

Kim Romain (28:29): Here's a plug for our services.

Louise Neil (28:30): Yeah. Commercial break. We'll be right back.

Kim Romain (28:33): Yeah.

Louise Neil (28:35): It's the because and I say that because before I even knew what coaching was or that it was a thing that could benefit me or that people did, I was so busy doing. I didn't have time to get to know myself and...

...that as busy as I was, I thought I was moving forward, it really slowed me down. And I've talked before on this, on the show about how I do feel like there are some things that I am learning for the very first time in my 50s, that many people who are more in tune with their bodies, their emotions, they've learned a long time ago. I...

...was frozen. We talked about this before, feeling really frozen in my body and not accessing the beautiful parts that were below the neck. Very, very heady. And it was actually through coaching that I was able to kind of release some of that, I guess like thaw some of that hamster wheelie stuff and actually have a look around. And when I looked around internally, I was like, well,

there seems to be some conflicts going on. There are some misalignments happening. Like what's going on? And that's when the vision of the bus and the kids throwing bologna sandwiches at each other has stuck with me because that was very much how I felt. But I only discovered that through a coach. And I only discovered that because I took the time one hour a week to explore myself.

And before I was very, was just too busy to do stuff like that. Like who does that? I've got stuff to do. Shit has to get done and I'm the one doing it and it's the pushing. And so that was one thing and I'm going to say therapy is the other because...

Kim Romain (30:36): Okay,

Louise Neil (30:41): Ooh. No.

Kim Romain (30:45): Hehehehe

Louise Neil (30:49): ...

Kim Romain (30:50): I get called a business therapist all the time.

Louise Neil (30:52): So here's the difference. What I talk to my coach about is different than what I talk to my therapist about. Not in the sense of like it's different topics. It's how I talk about it and it's what we do about it that's different. And so in therapy, it's very much about, for me, it's about an unpacking of my suitcases that I brought to this moment. So my traumas,

the things that have happened to me in the past that are obstacles or potential obstacles, I get to unpack that with a therapist. That's my suitcases. I'm throwing them open and we're looking through all of this stuff and I'm figuring out how that stuff get there. Do I still need that stuff? All of those things. With coaching, it's like, ooh, I get to show up on the platform...

...nine and three quarters, I get to show up on the platform and with a coach, I get to decide what train I'm going on. I get to decide where I'm heading and I don't have to unpack my suitcase to do that. I do that in therapy. And so to me, that's the difference is, they play, they play well together. I think a therapist and a coach absolutely are part of my dream team.

But that to me is the difference, is that I get to figure out what train I'm hopping on with my coach, and I get to figure out what the fuck's in my suitcase with my therapist.

Kim Romain (32:23): It's so interesting, right? Because this, this, people call me a coach all the time and I'm like, I use coaching as a tool.

Louise Neil (32:36): Sure.

Kim Romain (32:55): Because I don't see what I bring to the table is not just coaching. I'm also not a licensed therapist. Right? Will we unpack some stuff? Absolutely. But when we're unpacking stuff, I'm really clear to say the why is not important in our conversations. And it's fascinating because I feel like we were taught to get to the why.

Louise Neil (32:36): Absolutely.

Kim Romain (32:55): Right? We need to understand why. Why do I behave this way? Well, if you want to know why you behave a certain way, I have a ton of tools that can diagnose you, quote unquote, diagnose you, that can give you an analysis or an assessment of why you're doing what you're doing. What good does that why do you? Now you have that information.

Right? In a therapeutic sense, sometimes that why can be healing. Right? If we're talking about it from a therapeutic sense. From the place that you come from as a coach and that I come, right, as a guide or as an advisor, or even as a mentor, what I'm looking at is less the why. And it's more the... It's not even the what. It's like...

I don't care about what that thing is. What I care about is, you're saying you want to be on this train, right? We've together figured out which train you want to get on. You said you want to get on that train. So why are you still standing here on the platform? Now I'm saying why, but I don't actually want your story.

The story doesn't matter. What matters is that we figure out the way to get you on the train. Maybe it's actually the wrong train. Maybe you're saying that's the train because you have this conditioning, because you have, you're listening to certain voices that are not actually yours. Maybe it's the right train, but it's the wrong time. It's not going to get you to the destination at the time that you want.

Maybe it's the right train, but the wrong car.

So let's look at what are all of the different ways that we can explore the train, that we can explore the possibilities, right? Is there another train leaving from a different station? Maybe we need to go walk for a little while or get in a car or on a bus before we get on the train.

So that kind of exploration can be really helpful as we're starting to understand that, right, who's throwing baloney where.

Louise Neil (34:58): Sure. Yeah.

Kim Romain (35:00): And that way we can say, this person over here, this part of me is throwing baloney because it doesn't want to plan. It just wants to play. And this one is throwing baloney because it doesn't want to play as much. It wants to plan. Well, friends, we're on the same fricking bus. We're in the same train together. So if we want this train to go forward and not be stalled out, what do we need to do?

And so that's very different. And it is why you, I would agree having a team of people come together, a therapist, a coach, a guide, an advisor, like whatever those terms are that people want to throw out, having a team of support that you can lean into so you can figure your own shit out.

Louise Neil (35:38): Sure. Yeah. And it's cool because we kind of, we started this conversation around like being, doing, and moving. And this idea of the train or whatever it is that pick a mode of transportation. But the idea of this train is that you can, if it's a unicycle, like go for that.

Kim Romain (36:00): Other than a unicycle.

Louise Neil (36:05): It's it's there's a moving component to it. It's a it's a moving from here to somewhere else. Because that's what I believe is that that's life, right? We we use it, we move through life. How are we choosing to move through life? Are we choosing to move through life with a lot of luggage or none? Are we choosing to ride a unicycle or hop on a jet plane? Are we choosing to...

...do it with friends or do it on our own. And it's that, it's all of this stuff that we talked about. It's this, the being of ourselves that actually allow us to move through life with more ease, with more self-awareness, with more joy for the journey. And I'll be so worried about the destination.

Kim Romain (36:54): Yeah, I think that's my takeaway from our conversation today. It's the joy of the journey. Because, right, we get so hung up on the destination. And in our conversation where we started, right, we started talking about the celebration of where we've been for the last three years, not where we're headed.

Louise Neil (36:58): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's the joy of this journey. Like right now, it's the joy of this conversation. Yeah.

Kim Romain (37:25): Yeah. Well, Louise, thank you as always for having such a joyful conversation, such an ease-filled conversation where we got to just see what was along the way.

Louise Neil (37:37): Yeah. Yeah. So come join us listener on our next episode. Who knows where we're going to go, but we're going to have fun getting there.

Kim Romain (37:47): We absolutely will.

Louise Neil (37:48): Make sure to reach out, like follow, do all of those things with this podcast, but reach out to me. I'd love to continue the joy conversation. You can find me on LinkedIn most days.

Kim Romain (38:00): Multiple times a day, usually.

Louise Neil (38:02): Usually. How about you, Kim?

Kim Romain (38:05): Yeah, I am I'm also on LinkedIn not quite as often but I am on I am on LinkedIn and I'm also over on Substack so Come play with me. I like to play.

Louise Neil (38:14): Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, everyone. Bye for now.

Kim Romain (38:17): Take care.