Transitions, Transformations, and the Truth About Change

Change is easy. Transition is where it gets messy. In this episode of The Empowered & Embodied Show, we dive into the real difference between change, transition, and transformation... and why even the most beautiful shifts can feel exhausting.

From long distances moves to navigating menopause, we unpack what it means to live in the “messy middle,” how to stay present instead of rushing to the other side, and why mindset alone isn’t enough. Together we explore identity shifts, growth edges, and what it takes to unhook from cultural expectations that tell us to “just push through.”

If you’ve ever wondered why transitions feel so damn hard, or how to move through them with more grace, compassion, and presence... this conversation is for you.

What you’ll hear in this episode:

• The difference between change, transition, and transformation
• Why transitions tax us physically, emotionally, and spiritually
• How menopause and midlife become identity transitions
• What it looks like to stay present in the messy middle
• Why unhooking from old stories and expectations creates real growth

Key moments in this episode:

00:00 – Welcomes and Introductions

02:39 – Change vs. Transition

06:03 – Why Transitions Feel So Hard

08:35 – Menopause as an Identity Transition

13:40 – Losing Presence in the Middle

19:29 – Growth Edges and Awareness

23:46 – Change Is F*cking Hard

26:24 – Transformation Within Transitions

31:10 – The Discomfort of Growth

36:39 – Integrity, Alignment, and Leadership

38:43 – Hooked vs. Unhooked

40:26 – Closing Reflections

Join a circle of changemakers committed to leading with purpose, presence and ease inside Kim's Rising Visionaries mentorship program.

Reclaim your career and confidence during midlife through Louise's Rise & Redefine program.

If you’re loving this show, come check out the Feminist Podcasters Collective, where creators like us are uplifting diverse voices and driving meaningful change. If you’re looking for new shows to fill your feed, head to https://feministpodcasterscollective.com

Transcript

Transitions, Transformations, and the Truth About Change

Episode 178

Hosts: Kim Romain & Louise Neil

Release Date: September 23, 2025

Kim Romain (01:33) Hello, hello, hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Empowered and Embodied show. I am Kim Romain, one of your co-hosts, joined as always by the lovely and beautiful and amazing...

Louise (01:44) It's me, Louise, over here, the other co-host today. Well, I guess I am every day.

Kim Romain (01:49) And you are every day. But here's the thing, you asked me one time to share with you to say, you know, say something other than my co-host, Louise. And so I like to add these adjectives and I want some back, lady.

Louise (02:03) You always go first and so that's your prize. I go second so I get lovely, beautiful, amazing, and talented. That's how it goes.

Kim Romain (02:10) I see how that goes. I'm not loving that one. We might have to transition at some point and have you go first. Ooh.

Louise (02:15) Ha! Cool.

Kim Romain (02:21) Ooh, did you feel that energetic shift right there?

Louise (02:24) That would shake things up. That would shake things up.

Kim Romain (02:29) It would, it would. But yeah, I mean, just even saying it, like there was an energetic shift of thinking, like, not that it would be bad, it would just be different.

Louise (02:39) Well, isn't that what transitions are?

Kim Romain (02:41) Usually. I think. Yeah.

Louise (02:43) Different, right? What's the difference between a change and a transition?

Kim Romain (02:49) Mmm. Semantics.

Louise (02:51) Is it?

Kim Romain (02:52) No, that was my smart ass answer that came forward. What's the difference between change and transitions? Well, there's change. There's change all the time. Things change, like we change our clothes, we change, right? Whatever.

Louise (03:07) Yeah, the sheets on our bed, that's what came to mind, right? Like we do change often, every day.

Kim Romain (03:12) Exactly. But that's not a transition. That's not, there's no, and I don't think a transition has to come with a transformation either, but a transition is a shift from one state of being to another, or one set of circumstances to another, which that seems different than a change. Like I still have sheets on my bed.

Louise (03:34) Yeah, like, or, yeah, yeah, as you were talking, like, even like, I think a point of view, right? Like we transition, like something is more fundamentally altered, I think, through transition.

Kim Romain (03:50) Yeah, yeah, that, that, I like that. Something is fundamentally different. So I moved, right? My background's different. My background is absolutely different. And we moved. We moved 170 miles away from where we were. We moved into an entirely new province. And there was the transition of the move.

Louise (03:58) That's different, your background's different.

Kim Romain (04:17) There's transition around our daughter's schooling. There's transition around my community, my business community and personal community. Yes, we changed our address, but there's also been a transition. Because it's taking us a hot minute to actually get settled in and to, because there has been a fundamental shift. It is fundamentally different.

Louise (04:40) Kim, you've talked a lot about how different your communities are, even.

Kim Romain (04:46) Yeah, for years. There was a lot that I actually did love about living in Quebec. There was a lot that was challenging. Now, first and foremost, we moved up there. We were still closed down for COVID. So we moved up there in 2021. And so things were still really tightly closed down. So it was very hard to create community when you couldn't be around people. And so then we settled into our ways and settled into our routines and it became harder and harder as time went by to actually kind of create different types of community. But even in the neighborhood we were in, we met two families and only actually stayed connected with one family that was in our direct neighborhood. And here we've already met eight families and they've connected us with the community Facebook and somebody's on city council and can't wait to have us come. It's like, and they know we're renters, right? They know it's, which usually people are like, you're a renter. Like, I, we may not want to even invest. They're like, come on in. We'd love to just share ourselves with you. So that's a, that's a fundamental change.

Louise (06:03) You. So what is it about transitions that make them hard? I think no matter how we label them, good, bad, like transitions are tough. They're hard to get through. Like what makes it so tough?

Kim Romain (06:23) Yeah, this is a beautiful change, right? A beautiful transition for us. And it has been fuck all hard. It's come with a lot of ease and it's still exhausting. And I am incredibly depleted. I think we don't give ourselves as human beings, regardless of the type of transition we're going through, I don't think we give ourselves enough grace, enough understanding that there is a physical component, a mental component, an emotional component, an energetic component, sometimes a spiritual component to these fundamental changes. And all of that is taxing. Even if it's a good change, right? The transition itself is depleting. And yet I think we have this expectation that whether it's a move, whether it's a change in our work or our job, whether it's our physical self that's transitioning, there's a lot of healing that needs to happen. A lot that we need to release, a lot that we need to reclaim, a lot that, right, like all of that. And I think it's hard because we try to push through.

Louise (07:38) Yeah, there's a letting go that happens in a transition that's just not there in a change. Like when I change my sheets, I'm not letting go of anything. I'm putting fresh ones on. But in a transition, we are like all of those areas that you talked about, right? Like energetically, mentally, emotionally, physically, right? All of those things through a transition, or even while we're in a transition, we're like unhooking ourselves from the before. And that all takes, it takes a lot of energy and a lot of, it takes a lot of capacity and compassion to get through that.

Kim Romain (08:16) Yeah, yeah. You were sharing with me, I hope it's okay that I share this. You were sharing with me that you had a very special doctor's appointment yesterday.

Louise (08:26) The final.

Kim Romain (08:28) Yeah, specifically to help you through your current physical transition.

Louise (08:35) Yeah, I got to see a menopause specialist and to help me through my menopause transition. And it, you know, as you're talking about all those things around moving and all of like, yes, like repeated for me. And still that difference is like outside. Like, I don't look any different. I'm not in a different geography. I don't have different friends. And yet this transition that I'm going through is more than just hormonal. Like, it's an identity transition that I'm going through currently and probably have been for a number of years already. And so it's really interesting to think about not just what's changing, but like, who am I during the transition? Because it is so long. This isn't something that happens in a week, right? This is years that this transition is going to be resurfacing or carrying on. And so how am I caring for myself emotionally, mentally, physically, spiritually, all of those things so that I don't feel lost on the other side of it.

Kim Romain (09:56) Who am I? Like when we go through those transitions, I feel like that comes up. Who am I? Who was I? Who am I now? And then sometimes depending on the transition, right? Because there's all different kinds. It's like, who am I going to be? Or who do I need to be? starts to play in because I think when we're in transitions, we are very often like I think about my own menopause journey, it's what is after, right? That's that pushing through what is after versus who am I now? And that release of who I've been.

Louise (10:35) Yeah, and there's that, it's that after piece that I think we get stuck on too, is that, you know, through whatever transition you're going through, like a work transition, a geographical transition, a menopause transition, is that I think we get stuck on like, but there's that change on the other side, right? Like when I'm done this transition, then it'll be black and white different or I'll be someplace different or right, and we miss out on a lot of the present moment of like, who am I during the transition? But we also don't have control over the other side of it. We like to think we do, like, right? Like you had, you had a different address on the other side and it's like, and that's just the change of address. That's not the transition that you're going through. And so I think we can get stuck a lot of times on like, I'll be different, I'll be better. Things will be better on the other side of this transition. And we need a little bit of that optimism. And yet it can still hook us to be like so focused on this other side that we're missing out on who we are or who we get to be right now during the transition.

Kim Romain (12:00) Isn't that part of what makes it so hard? I'm so focused, right? The individual, I, other people, you, we're so focused on what we can't touch, feel, experience yet. We're so focused on that and we want to get to that thing so badly. Either we want to be out of pain because we're experiencing pain and we're transitioning to something we're hoping is better, or it, you know, we're just transitioning. It's we're just moving from one thing to another and it's a big change. But that I think of. I think of what I went through with my mom with her breast cancer journey and there is definitely the like, before you're diagnosed, when you're diagnosed, as you're going through the process of care and then when you're in remission. And the goal is always to get to remission. And one of the things that I remember talking about with my mom early on was because she said, I need to just heal my body and heal my heart, right? Just I need to physically heal so I can get through this. And I'm like, what about just also experiencing it? Because I know we've talked about this aspect before, is like we bump over these parts. When we went through this move, I knew it was gonna be hard. It was relatively fast. Like when we finally decided where we were going and all of that, it was very, very fast. I mean, a long distance move in less than a month is fast. I'll tell you that.

Louise (13:21) Mm-hmm.

Kim Romain (13:40) Painful and I expected it to be painful during July and I was really present with that and honored what my body needed, gave myself as much rest and care and feeding and watering as I could. I knew the first week, like I was anticipating the first week, bringing in the boxes, doing all the stuff. We're three weeks in and I'm like, why the fuck am I still so exhausted? And I think part of it is I've lost my presence because I'm already onto the next thing, because I'm going to be traveling soon. So I'm like, I have to get my kid into school. I have to get ready to travel. What is that going to be like to travel? And what is it going to be like when I get back? So I've lost my presence. And so I feel not like it's not who am I, right? I'm back to what's going to happen.

Louise (14:28) Yeah, yeah. Well, and that's a default, right? Like that's how culture and society has kind of like trained us to be and is looking for that next thing or that, right? Being, we think we're being proactive, right? Because we're thinking about like, what's coming next. And yet we miss so much of our accomplishments. We miss so much of the ability to celebrate, like being in the present moment, being in that transition. It's fine when your transition feels like there's a beginning and an end, right? Like, except it doesn't really work that way. That's right.

Kim Romain (15:11) I was gonna say, what transition does? What transition, like, really when we think about it, when is the beginning, when is the end and what is in the middle?

Louise (15:19) Sure. Right? But we know when we're in the middle of one. We know. I think we do. I think if we're self-aware, we do. Right?

Kim Romain (15:20) How do we really know? Do we?

Louise (15:30) We can have change forced upon us and be too busy trying to deal with change, right? That we're transitioning, but maybe we don't know it yet. And so I think there's that part of it. But I think if we're self-aware and we're doing the work, I think we know when we're in transition. Maybe we don't know when it started, but we know when we're in it.

Kim Romain (15:53) So I agree we know when we're in it. I just don't know that we know that it's the middle. Like I feel like we keep thinking we're like either closer to the beginning or closer to the end. I feel, right? The middle feels like it's a lot longer than we ever want it to be.

Louise (15:59) Ooh, cool. Sure, sure, sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. Like, we could be in the middle. Yeah, like, it's like, is it a single stuffed Oreo or double stuffed Oreo? Like, right? Like, there's, there's a lot of, right? Like, there's a lot of middle there sometimes. And it can feel like, like, we're there. And it can feel like we're stuck there. And I think that's the reframe that we're talking about is like, let's not, let's not look at a transition as what it was before or what it could be after. But let's talk about like, and be in the transition so that we're not hooking ourselves on something that might not be true. With menopause, with my menopause journey, like this is years, right? Like my transition is taking years to go through. And so, right, it was years ago that my sleep started failing me. It was years ago that I started with disconnection and some depression and anxieties coming back. Like that was years ago. And yet I'm still in the middle. I was in the middle then and I'm still in the middle. And so you're right. I don't want to get like too stuck on like, but how much longer? Right? Like how much longer am I going to be here? I can't wait to get on the other side. I can't wait to be like, right past all of this shitty stuff. I can't wait. Well, I have to wait. But it's out of my control.

Kim Romain (17:45) And it's more than mindset, right? That's the other thing. It's like what you're talking about, I can hear a million people saying, yes, but the way you control it is through your mind. Just see and imagine and right, you know, sure, as a true manifesting generator, I understand the power of manifestation and yes, we can bring things into the world. And I also don't believe that mindset is the end all, be all for anything.

Louise (18:13) Right. Right. And that's where, right, like seeking support when you need it, from where you need it. And I think that's important too. It's part of like my framework when I talk about menopause, I have this little framework. And one of the parts that we talk about is support. And that's support from whatever medical professional or healthcare practitioner you need, but also your spiritual, like your energy, like all of those things, but also your community, right? You talk about how exhausting it feels to go through a transition because we're spent in actually going through the motions of a transition. And during that transition, like we need all of those things. We need to be able to find those things so that when we're on the other side of this or we feel like we can look back and go, yeah, that was a transition, that we're not exhausted, that we're more fulfilled, like we're more full and we don't feel empty and depleted.

Kim Romain (19:29) So we've talked in the past about this concept of growth edges, right? Like when we get to a space where we're ready to, we've hit the maximum of the knowledge or understanding that we're going to get, again, energetically, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, physically, whatever, we get to that edge. And that edge to me is what we're talking about when we're talking about transitions. On one side, we're gaining knowledge, understanding, wisdom, right? On whatever of those levels that's on and then on that we are in that growth edge for however long we need to be in that growth edge and then we move through the other side and when we move to the other side again, we have, very often we have this, this is what I'm moving towards. I will say most times when I have recognized I've moved through it. I'm like, yeah, no, that's not at all what I thought this was gonna be. Look where I am now, look what I'm experiencing now.

Louise (20:30) Mm-hmm.

Kim Romain (20:31) And that's that awareness. Because I think people go through this without the awareness. I think they're going through whatever transitions or whatever growth, growth edges they're experiencing in their lives and their work and their relationships. And they're just calling it hard.

Louise (20:49) Is that just a reframe? Like, what is that?

Kim Romain (20:54) I don't think it is just a reframe. I think it's the work of actually knowing yourself, of understanding how complex we are as human beings and that if I'm complex, you're complex and everybody else around us is complex. It's like we're bumping up against each other and we're feeding off of each other. So what's actually mine? When I understand what's mine, now I can actually see what my growth edges are, what my transitions are, where I have experienced this. Otherwise, I'm just going through life and going, fuck that, that sucked. I don't wanna do that again, but I don't know why. Is it because it was something for me to learn, to grow, to develop through? Or was it because in my environment, in the collective, societally, I bumped up against something that I didn't expect, no understand? Like, I think we do talk about transitions and change and all of this stuff to a certain level, but I don't think we actually talk about what it means as an individual, as all of the complex layers of self. We can list off the five things that we've been listing off, right? Physical, spiritual, da-da-da, all of that. But when we actually put it on paper and we go, shit, that's me? That's very different.

Louise (22:12) Sure. Yeah. Yeah. You know, as you're talking, you know, corporate, corporate speak, right, around like change management. I was like, we got to manage change. We got this big change coming into an organization. And right, how do we manage change? How do we manage, right, what people are going to experience, what they're going to, right, take from this? What? Why would they even want to embrace this change? Because it's, right, new and shiny. And yet, I don't think we can manage that. It's so individual and it's so nuanced is that when we really at the core of change management, it's understanding people and what they need when they go through this transition. We help them let go of what was. We help them figure out what they need in that moment. And that's hugely exhausting for many. And then we have this tendency to like, go back often and fight and kick, right? And this like, try to hang on to what was and through a transition, fundamentally, when we're talking about like going through something, right? Coming out on the other side, I think even as humans and not just organizations, we try to manage all of those things.

Kim Romain (23:46) Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it, okay. So two things came through. One, the word manage and like man, age. Just gonna say there's something there. Manhandling, aging, just all sorts of stuff came through my mind on that. We're just going to leave that there, fill in your own blank. The other part of it is like, and it probably was coming through that same lens was this place of, you are over-complicating this. If there's change to be had, just get through it, get to the other side, you'll be fine. Right? No, no, no, no, no, no. That is absolutely. Systemically, what we have taught people is to tamp down and dilute so much of who they are and what they need that when they go through transitions, when they go through change, whether it is organizationally, individually, whether it's a move or it's hormones or whatever the fuck it is, that we're supposed to just be fine and we're not. Change is fucking hard, transitions are fucking hard. Changing my clothes is not hard, but massive change, massive shifts like we're seeing in the world right now, whether or not we're talking politically or systemically or governmentally, like whatever it is, individually, everyone I've talked to in the last six months is making some major shifts in their life. They're going through so many growth edges. They're going through so many transformations and they're wondering why everything feels so hard. They're wondering why they're so emotional and so burnt out and so tired all the time. Because we've been taught that this is supposed to not be hard and the reason it's not hard for some people is because they have huge systems of people behind them making it easy for them. So they're not being touched by the actual transformation or change, which in my mind then means they're not actually transforming. They're not going through that transition. They're not experiencing that growth edge themselves. They're staying status quo.

Louise (25:59) Right. Yeah, you did, you did. And it's interesting because we had talked about this before we hit record, right? And we talked about like, does there have to be transformation and transition? And I think there's a seed, seed of it. Now transformation can look however you want it to look, big, small, medium, right? Whatever that looks like. But I think there is a seed of transformation that happens in a transition when we are present as we're going through it. Like we actually get to glean some juicy goodness off of a transition if we're present and we are in some small way transformed through the process.

Kim Romain (26:47) Yeah, I mean, I would agree. Not having actually sat down and thought about these words, like in nesting order, how they all go together. I do agree. I think that there's, that's growth edge. You don't come out of a growth edge not transformed. No, it doesn't have to be like, you know, angels on high or whatever, but you are transformed. There is something fundamentally different. Going back to what we were talking about at the beginning, what's the difference between change and transition? Well, transformation means that you have something that has fundamentally shifted.

Louise (27:19) Yeah. Yeah.

Kim Romain (27:24) So interesting. Yeah. Because I know that even in this change of address transition that we're going through, I spent this past weekend driving my family around. That has not been something that I've done in a decade. Even when I lived in Chicago, I had gotten to a point where it was like, husband will drive us. It'll be fine. I'll be whatever. But I hadn't had a desire to actually explore and feel that freedom of just picking where we go, quote unquote, being in charge. So something transformed in me in this transition that allowed me to be like, ooh, let's explore, let's play in this way.

Louise (28:07) Yeah. And like, and so like, that's such a, I think, a great call out and like something to, I'm going to use your words, let's underline that. Is that, you know, as we're going through these transitions, it's not like we're like, so aware and it's going to be transformed in this way or look at this transformation or like, there's fireworks and that's beautiful. No, that's not what we're talking about. Right? We're talking about like, what can we gather by being in a transition? But also I love that reflection around like, ooh, like I am different here as I'm going through this. I'm showing up a little bit differently and it's kind of fun. And what can that look like? And where's that thread that we can pull on from the other side? Maybe you're not on the other side yet, but you're on the other side of something with a different address. Yeah.

Kim Romain (29:02) Yeah. Yeah. There's, I mean, there are definitely different, there are, are, there's more to explore, more to transition, more to transform. There's also a little sadness that comes with it. It's like, ooh, why didn't I take advantage of X, Y, and Z? And by the way, that Z thing has like come naturally now. I don't. So talk about a transition and or transformate. Like I spent over 50 years saying Z and now I say Z. So who knows? But that, there is sadness. There is a little longing of, ooh, I'm not gonna get an opportunity to go back and do that again. So what do I want to do different this time? Because I get a new chance in a new city. That I didn't do all the things that I necessarily thought I was going to when we got to Montreal. Not that I'm not gonna go back to Montreal, I am, but I'm not gonna live there that I know of.

Louise (29:52) Right.

Kim Romain (29:57) So, yeah, it's so interesting.

Louise (29:57) Yeah. Yeah. And I think the key is like to find those nuggets in all of the transitions that we're doing, right? It doesn't have to be big to be a lesson or to have a nugget. Sometimes these transitions, when they happen, they're not so depleting or not so big, but because they're foundational and fundamental, when we reflect back, we get to pull that forward. But to do that, not to think that we have to change geographies to change how we're showing up in the world. We get to do that too. We get to create moments of transition for ourselves all the time. It's not just about what's put upon us. It's also what we create. And why we want to create that. Why do we want to be on a growth edge? Why do we want to push through? Why do we want to be uncomfortable? But really understanding that part is that we actually get to create some of those opportunities over and over and over again. And we get to transition and transform and change and grow and all of those things over and over.

Kim Romain (31:10) I think what you just said is what I don't hear people talking about. Because not directly anyway, because I do believe at least in North America, we have the propensity to want to be comfortable. And the minute things get uncomfortable or come with discomfort, we look for the exit. Right? And so what does this opportunity of being in discomfort, of being uncomfortable, what does it actually give us? And why do we want to do that?

Louise (31:40) That's a great question.

Kim Romain (31:41) What do you think?

Louise (31:42) Right? Well, I just had this conversation today with one of my clients and we were talking about putting or getting ourselves into uncomfortable situations and being someone different, right? Being a different kind of leader is what we were talking about. He got some great feedback from, right, from a 360 and it was like show up in these spaces, take up more space, be bigger, be louder, you've got so much greatness, right? And he was like, but that feels skeezy. That doesn't feel like it's me. And my question was like, what's the difference between being uncomfortable because we're growing or we're trying something different and being misaligned with our values? Right? Because it can start to feel the same. And you can say like, oh, this is uncomfortable. Not for me. Right? And we can immediately put up our hands and we can start pushing back. And I would encourage folks to sit in some uncomfortable juiciness for a little bit longer than what you're used to so that you have the information to now decide, is it against my values and it's skeezy or is there something different just on the other side of that uncomfortable? Is it me growing or learning something new? Maybe not, but we have to be there in this uncomfortable place for just a little bit longer than what we're used to so that we can start to kind of decipher that as opposed to like, immediately pushing back on uncomfortable and just saying, well, no, well, that's not me. It's like, but how can you make a change and make it still you, right? Still be showing up as yourself. But that's really, that's what came up, right? Like we often push back because we don't like that feeling. It's just skeezy or slimy or gross.

Kim Romain (33:43) Yeah, it's. Yeah, yeah, that's uncomfortable. Earlier this week, I had one of our Conscious Connections meetings inside of the Rising Visionaries. And it was a beautiful conversation that I facilitated around being in integrity. And what happens when we're externally challenged, right? Which it sounds like your client was externally challenged, our integrity is externally challenged, versus when do we internally challenge our integrity and how does that show up differently? And it was again, these nesting doll ideas of kind of what are we most committed to and devoted to, which to me sits underneath values even. Right, those values, my values have shifted over the years, my, is, when I'm in integrity, what I'm deeply committed to in this lifetime, that doesn't change. And so to me, what you're saying is like, check whatever words you wanna use, check in on that thing that is the core of you. And if it is pushing up against that, if that is an external push against your integrity, then absolutely it's okay to say that's not for me. If that is pressing on an internal thing, asking you, are you in integrity, then figure out how to be in that situation. Right? So an example was a client who was on this call had recently been to Washington, DC for a conference and the leader of the conference or the facilitator of the conference had made a comment about what was and was not allowed in the meeting based on current administration. And it was in tension with the community agreements they had just come up with as a group. And so what was being asked of the individual was to not say something. The individual was like, that pushes against my integrity. But how can I be in integrity and connecting with what they're asking me to do? Right? Like I don't have to show up and be an asshole if just to be an asshole, I can still be in integrity and do something that's misaligned with my values. So how do I, and that's figuring that out, that is deep self-awareness. And that's something that came through having to do a lot of this deep transformational work and going through a lot of transitions in their own growth and development as a leader in the space. But that's what we like, right? That's what we have to do. We have to continually go back to the well and say, what is mine?

Louise (36:38) Mm-hmm.

Kim Romain (36:39) And how can I be in integrity or aligned with my values to use your words? Like, how do I do that? How do I sit with that deepest core part of myself to be in this space of transition, the space that's being pushed against me? And that in and of itself is gross. Versus showing up and being like, I'm not gonna follow what you want me to do or shutting down and saying, I can't do anything because it goes against my values or my integrity.

Louise (37:07) Or I'm fine.

Kim Romain (37:09) Or the worst, that, God, that made me nauseous just hearing that. Don't say you're fine, god damn it. Yeah, wow. So we started the conversation with this silly little jab at, right? Like, who's gonna start the, like, I start the conversation each time doing my hellos. And we shifted the energy to be like, well, you could start it and then I could see who I, like, what adjectives you would have for me, right? And even in saying that, we felt the energy shift. We were like, ooh, that would be a transition. That would be a transformation of some kind. It's been a really interesting road. And I, for me, like, I'm going to jump in and say what, where I got really fired up today is this place of how much we are asked to constrain, restrain, constrain, and keep locked down because society doesn't want to be uncrowned. And if we as individuals feel that discomfort, that makes others uncomfortable. And that's a no-no. And that to me is why that's like, I wanna keep having that conversation around this idea of when we shift things or transition things or go through growth edges. Like, really that I think is really important that we pay attention to is how do we show up in that and how do we go about? Back to self. What about for you? What are you taking away?

Louise (38:43) Yeah, you know, it's this idea of like, where do we get hooked and where do we unhook, right? And so we can get hooked and just like you said, right, like society can push us somewhere or pull us somewhere and we get hooked so easily. We can get hooked on getting through a transition. Like, I just want to get through it. Like, let's just go and be on the other side of it. We get hooked in all kinds of places and spaces in our lives where change, right? Where you feel like just do it, just change and adapt, right? Be resilient and just get through. And I think this, if we can unhook ourselves from that ideology and just say, well, I'm in transition and what can I learn? Who can I be here now? And not worry so much about what was or what will be. I think there's such juiciness in that space that even if it is uncomfortable, we get to be aware and kind of take note of what might be going on.

Kim Romain (39:53) There's, I energetically felt that unhooking that you were talking about, right? Because I think that that's, we try and do it mentally and emotionally, and yet there's something huge that happens when we energetically, when we learn how to energetically disconnect and unhook ourselves from thoughts, from behaviors, from other people, from whatever.

Louise (40:15) Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So tell me, what do you got going on in your new geography? Where can people find you? What's the stuff?

Kim Romain (40:26) So none of that has changed. None of that has changed. Continuing to play over in Substack. The best way to know what's going on in my world is to get on my email list or come check out the Rising Visionaries as well. How about for you?

Louise (40:29) Okay. I love it. I am over on Substack 2. The rag is going strong and I'm having a lot of fun over there. So that's where you'll find a lot of my menopause and perimenopause talk. And yeah, you just never know what I have going on. So getting on my email list is also a prime way to stay connected with all of the things that will be coming up.

Kim Romain (41:06) Please, thank you for this conversation.

Louise (41:06) Kim, thank you, my lovely, beautiful, talented and amazing co-host for this fantastic conversation. I love it. And thank you, listener, for tuning in to another episode. Take care, everyone.

Kim Romain (41:22) Bye for now.